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V6 Crankshaft Info

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by 383 hatch, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. 383 hatch

    383 hatch Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone

    Seeing as there are so many people that ask about the V6 Crankshafts for manual conversions, i thought i would make a thread with all the crankshafts and pics of them. Anyway, this should have enough info to help everyone out, however if you have any questions just ask and i should be able to answer them for you.

    Ok, The below picture is of a VN V6 series 1 manual crank, it can be identified by the large 6 bolt rear flange that protudes from the block, this crank runs its own flywheel that is NOT interchangable with VN Series 2-VR & Ecotec Auto or VN series 2-VR & Ecotec Manual. This Crank can NOT be converted to auto unless you change the crank to an auto item.

    [​IMG]

    The below picture is a VN V6 series 1 Auto crank, it can be identified by its small 6 bolt rear flange which is flush with the rear of the block. This Crankshaft CAN be converted to Manual by way of an adaptor (that accepts the standard VN series 1 manual flywheel) or a complete custom flywheel as offered by CRS (make sure you get it balanced). You can NOT convert this crank to manual by using a standard GM flywheel without an adaptor. This is the ONLY auto crank that will not interchange auto flexplates with the later VN Series 2-VR & Ecotec cranks.

    [​IMG]

    The below picture is a VN Series 2-VR Crank, it can be identified by its 8 bolt rear flange that sits flush with the rear of the blocks. These cranks will all interchange both manual flywheels & auto flexplates. If you are doing an auto to manual conversion, this is by far the easiest & best one to do.

    [​IMG]

    The below picture is of an Ecotec & L67 crank, it can be identified by its 8 bolt rear flange crankshaft (which is the same bolt pattern as VN Series 2-VR cranks) and alloy rear main seal plate that bolts to the block. The Ecotec's & L67's will interchange manual flywheels & auto flexplates with the earlier VN Series 2-VR cranks. However, they have a different balance so if you are doing a manual conversion on an Ecotec make sure you get it mirror balanced with the auto flexplate that comes off the Ecotec (absolutely crucial on L67's). Ecotecs did come from the factory with the dual mass flywheel, but if you are doing a manual conversion on one you are better off using the earlier solid flywheel but if you do get hold of an Ecotec manual conversion it will all bolt up to your auto Ecotec.

    [​IMG]

    Now when it comes to manual gearbox's, the T5's are all the same from VN to VS and will all directly interchange.

    Hope all this helps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2007
  2. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    nice, that should stop the debates on the issue. good info

    for further reference, the standard ratios for the V6 T5 box are:

    1st: 3.25:1
    2nd: 1.99:1
    3rd: 1.29:1
    4th: 1:1
    5th: .72:1

    i was gonna add that this should be stickied but somebody already has. excellent
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2007
  3. Rhino Racing

    Rhino Racing New Member

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    Flywheel Info!

    That is fantastic info guys!:thumbsup: WELL DONE!
    I sure wish i was able to find this sort of thing when i was looking 2 years ago regarding flywheels!:whistling
    I can add a little bit of info aswell that hopefully will also be helpful to someone down the track!
    Here goes!

    Here is some info regarding the differences in flywheels.
    The series 1 vn came out with a 6 bolt centre.The pcd is Approx 90 mm and weighs 10.1 kg.The flywheel has a bias weight on the back of it..... so it is unbalanced.( to help balance the motor) One bolt hole is slightly different ( offset) to the others so it can only go on one way.

    Series 2 flywheel is a 8 bolt centre. The pcd is Approx 65 mm and weighs less than 9.2 kgs. This flywheel is balanced.
    Series 2 engine has a shorter crank by approx 30 mm. So the shape of the back of the flywheel is different.
    I had machined up a spacer ( 1 kg) that would allow me to fit the series 1 flywheel to the series 2 motor.....
    Only trouble is it means that i would be running a flywheel that is 2 kg heavier than standard series 2..... totally wrong for my application.... if i have got to run this i may as well keep the race car in the shed........ wont get the thing to rev how i need it too.

    Holden australia do not have one of these.
    Catlemain rod shop was the answer!:bow:
    Ring the guys at THE CASTLEMAINE ROD SHOP near melbourne.
    They will charge you about $270 for one.
    They will supply and fit a ring gear for $75 too if you want.
    They delivered within 1 week which was great for me at the time.

    Hope this helps!:thumbsup:
    Will upload a pic of each of these too....( wont work ATM!)
     
  4. VSSECO

    VSSECO Underdog rebuild

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    Just got a question about "mirror balancing" of flywheels for the ecotec engine as mentioned above in the original post.
    Is this only necessary when putting an earier model flywheel onto an ecotec engine (since ecotec and earlier V6 have different balance)? OR, does the ecotec have different balances for auto and manual engines, hence making it necessary to balance an ecotec manual flywheel to suit an auto engine when doing the conversion???
     
  5. VSSECO

    VSSECO Underdog rebuild

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    On another note... In the ecotec, do the auto flexplate and manual flywheels use the same crank dowels? And should it be safe to re-use the original dowels when changing flywheels?
     
  6. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

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    Ok ecotec manual flywheels don not need balancing when going on ecotecs. The exception to this is the L67 because they are balanced differently and never came out of the factory manual.
    If your flywheel is off an earlier vns2-vr v6 then it will need to be balanced to suit any ecotec or l67 as stated above.
    I don't see any problem using original dowels unless they were damaged somehow
     
  7. VSSECO

    VSSECO Underdog rebuild

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    Perfect, thats what I wanted to hear. I've bought the exedy solid flywheel/clutch package and I'm about to do the auto to manual conversion. I didn't want to have to go and balance the new flywheel I just bought!
    I guess that the dowels aren't expensive anyway so maybe I should just get those new too.
     
  8. Chirpstr

    Chirpstr A new project attack

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    I have a ecotech series one flywheel...will I need to get this balanced or machined before putting it on my buick crank?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  9. deanos70

    deanos70 Member

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    Regarding the auto flexplate balancing from the factory, would it be a mass production balanced flexplate for each different model of motor built , like would all auto vx 3.8 ecotecs be balnced the same, or would each motor be balanced individually ?

    I was reading the above info about mirror balancing, ive got a 2002
    v6 ecotech motor that was an auto but it doesnt have the flexplate with it, i spoke to dellows to see about getting a solid flywheel to suit, they said they need my flexplate to balance the flywheel the same as there are about 6 different balance locations on the flexplate, im just a bit confused as this is the first time ive heard of this and in the post above it mentions that the ecotec doesnt need to be mirror balanced,

    I know castle rod shop do a solid flywheel as well to suit the ecos, has anyone who bought one from them had to get it balanced or just a straight bolt up job, and if it was a straight bolt up have you got any vibrations


    thanks in advance
     
  10. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you will need to get it balanced and likely machined before putting on your buickVR motor

    As far as i know they were a mass produced item. Motors were never fully balanced from factory (as in balancer, crank, rods, pistons, rings and flexplate)
    I can see how they were what they say is true. They do some balancing from factory. I didnt think it would be a big issue maybve it could be. We sell motors at work without flywheels/fexplates and people reuse theyre old ones to my knowledge thyere's never been any issues with this.
     
  11. Chirpstr

    Chirpstr A new project attack

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    You sure I'll have to get it balanced? Everyone I've spoke to reckons they are already balanced and just get it machined...mmmm How much does this ballanceing cost? Machined (which I was only going to do) is $40.

    Cheers.
     
  12. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

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    Ecotec and buicks have the same cranks but they are balanced differently. They're already nalanced but to suit ecotec not earlier buicks. To get it mirrored balanced (with your old flexplate) would cost about as much as machining any engine specialist will be albe to do it no worries.
     
  13. Chirpstr

    Chirpstr A new project attack

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    Big Thanks for clearing that up mate. I'll ring around and see if I can get it mirror balanced, not just a machined...
     
  14. vks

    vks New Member

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    series 2 crank to series 1 motor

    so its ok 2 fit a series 2 crank in2 a series 1 motor there wont be any drama's?
     
  15. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    I believe the oil pump drive is different between the two crankshafts ?

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  16. fuzzy2308

    fuzzy2308 New Member

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    so ecotec auto and ecotec manual same? straight bolt in either 1
     
  17. 383 hatch

    383 hatch Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are the same. Straight bolt in....
     
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  18. fuzzy2308

    fuzzy2308 New Member

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    thanx heaps mate. thanx for giving me a straight answear +1 rep. ive been ****ed around heaps on this subject. very healpfull. :D:D thanx again.
     
  19. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Well they are the same dimensions / sizing. But lets not forget the manaul crank has the dowel pins & the holes drilled to suit.

    So basically a manual crank will drop straight into a engine thats running a auto transmission.

    Where as earlier ecotec engines that had a auto trans don't have the dowel pin holes drilled. So if you want to put a manual box behind one of these auto cranks you will need to have it drilled for the dowels or run the flywheel without the dowels.

    Some have had no problems doing this where as other have had bolts come loose or snap. Your choice. :)

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  20. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Manual & Auto crank flanges below.

    Cheers

    Deek
     

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